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November 05, 2009

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Sal

as for the useful idiot party
BDA=Bullshit Diverts Attention


>>.The PLP might finally be gearing itself to actually address real issues with some manner of preplanning with their launch of the recent reports on black youth and Bermuda First,

after 11 years?

not in your lifetime, unless it benefits EB friends & family

the black men study will be used to whip up resentment,entitlement & payback as Bda inc. goes into even deeper winter layoff offs and business closures .

Why no mention of the EB policy of cutting the throat of Front St. tourism and retail that provide jobs for young black men ? .

$400,000 to point out that young black men should enter the technical trades ?

Millions wasted on Education consultants to point out that half of young black men drop out?

as usual,all talk no action

Sean Soares

Dennis,
I'm not sure, but you do realise that your history of BDA as posted above is exclusive to your own vision. I've heard many other people since I've been a young lad with the same idea. There was reference to it even on LIB from 2005. It's been kicking around for ages before you and I, by many people smarter than both you and I. How can you say that the name was hyjacked? Seriously?

" Then I remember that politics isn't ideal and instead is more about the benevolent dictators trying to reach the top of the bureaucracy so they can steer the path in their favour."

Dennis, not all politicians are motivated by greed, some do so cause they honestly care. I think you are out of line with this comment. You can't lump all politicians into one bag.

Denis

Sean,

Funny you mention the LIB reference from 2005. That's the exact timeframe I was talking about and if you look to the following quote above "He even made whispers of it here and there back then, though mostly on LimeyInBermuda." and check either the 'here' or 'there' links you'll note that they link to specific quotes mentioning Bermuda Democratic Alliance made by Graeme Outerbridge under his then pseudonym big bad wolf and iconic ^-.^

Eg:

Ace play your card and help me build it! Bda. Bermuda Democratic Alliance. ^-.^

Posted by big bad wolf on 25.03.05 at 18:45

2005 was the exact time frame being referenced in this piece.

I stand by my statement. Our present democracy is based upon a parliamentary system that is similar to electing your own dictator who ultimately steers the course of the future under their own desires once elected, regardless of what was pledged. You'll also note I said "Benevolent" which if you look up the definition you'd understand what it means:

1 a : marked by or disposed to doing good b : organized for the purpose of doing good
2 : marked by or suggestive of goodwill

I fundamentally, and have for quite some time believe in a more direct democratic approach that gives the people more say and more control as opposed to electing a dictator/s to reign for 5 years.

As for the character of many individuals in politics there are many who readily will stab you in the back to spread private knowledge for their own ends. We see it all the time.

Sean Soares

Yes Dennis, but as I said, this was kicking about before 2005 as well.

Oh so your a glass is half empty kind of guy then? I like to give people a chance to fail first before I critique them for being a part of something.

Dennis, even under the current system you can have a more democratic way than what is currently being played out. Internal rules of the party give their leader powers, or it gives them to the people who guide the leader into doing the will of the people. I like the last way best personally, but that may be just me.

Is it true democracy as the Greeks first invisioned it? No. Can it be flexed to work more democratically, sure! Will the overall system change down the road? Well I feel that's for the people of Bermuda to decide.

Denis

I certainly don't rule out the possibility that it came about before I knew about it. As I suggested, I didn't come up with the name, I attribute the credit to Graeme. As far as the available independent evidence suggests the first known usage was in 2005 by Graeme so I don't think it is a far leap to have presumed that he coined it. I welcome evidence which suggests otherwise.

As for the glass half empty/full debate, I'm neither. I'm the kind of guy who recognizes when the glass is twice as big as it actually needs to be.

What I can go by is what we have now, which is 2 parties whose structure is known and a third who has no known structure. Only time will tell what course they will chart.

Ultimately I believe that people can get into politics with the best of intentions however our perceptions and world views can cause us to do what we believe is best when really it is not the fairest action to all.

Unless we give the people greater power and a greater voice I am not convinced that our present system can produce the greatest success for all regardless of who is in power.

The people deciding is exactly what I advocate.

Sean Soares

"The people deciding is exactly what I advocate."

Then you and I are of the same mindset...

Denis

I'm not sure I'd agree.

Premier Brown believes in letting the people decide on gambling. He clarifies this to mean they should speak to their representatives to express their view.

My belief is that issues such as gambling should be put directly to the people by way of referendum. Further I believe we should adopt the ability for there to be popular initiatives by the people so that the government must hold a referendum if there is enough support as well as having binding requirements on certain decisions to be put to the people.

Ie, I subscribe to the guidelines put forth by the Initiative and Referendum Institute of Europe in their "Guidebook to direct democracy" (http://www.iri-europe.org/en/publications/guidebooks/2008-edition/)

If you can say you subscribe to the same then I'd be inclined to agree with regards to mindset, otherwise, I respectfully disagree.

As for letting the people decide if there is to be a new system, especially one like the one laid out in the above guidebook, well as of yet none of the existing parties are proposing a new system, yours included, so in reality the people are not being given the opportunity to decide.

Sean Soares

"My belief is that issues such as gambling should be put directly to the people by way of referendum."

I agree with you here, this is exactly what I would want to see and push for.

As for the guidbook, let me at least take a look and respond in time. So quick to denounce me here. I'll take a look see tonight and get back to you on it.

"As for letting the people decide if there is to be a new system, especially one like the one laid out in the above guidebook, well as of yet none of the existing parties are proposing a new system, yours included, so in reality the people are not being given the opportunity to decide."

Hmmmm well in all fairness the BDA is only 6 weeks in the making. There are some dynamic people involved. You above all others know the kind of organisation and behind the scene things that are involved with a launch amongst other things like core values and constitution. Actually if I recall, you prefer a much more measured and methodical approach, so I believe this comment is unfair for the new group. The plan is to have a series of public meetings and then a general meeting to sort out issues like leadership and then start to formulate platform based upon open and frank discussions with the public and members, this I believe can allow a platform for Bermuda by Bermuda, once done then it can be up to Bermudians to decide on what type of system they would like. It's no something we can ram down their throat, that's been tried before and it doesn't work. To my knowledge, and I'm not speaking for them, but referandums is big on the list of things to do for this group. They, we, really want Bermuda to have a say in direction.

Denis

Sean,

Not denouncing you so much as making sure my positions are clear. Premier Brown could easily have suggested we hold similar mindsets when he said he would take gambling to the people and yet look how different we are.

I've spent years studying open/direct democracy and have come to learn that neither it, nor its interpretation is cut and dry. There are varying forms, many successful, many unsuccessful, some just facades. The Californian system for example is a poor example and one I don't support while the Swiss system I feel to be a great example and one I am wholly in support of.

As to what you've suggested regarding BDA, well yes and no. They've been talking about splitting off for months and months and yet didn't take that time to plan. It doesn't say a lot about preparedness and having contingencies. Always ask what you will do when your plan fails, no matter how foolproof it seems. Subsequently when they unofficially launched they talked about having much to show, but came out with little. Even this launch, there is nothing with teeth.

You shouldn't have to tell me these things here, you should be telling the people these things.

Ie, the meeting schedule should be put up or at least a mention that there will be one. That you'll put things to the people and how you intend to do so is also crucial information. It helps define you as different from what we have now.

In all honestly, core values are worthless because there is nothing to ensure that they're followed. They only have value if they emanate from within an organization from its shell to its very core. Core values are represented in actions, not words and without supporting actions they're meaningless dribble.

My advice is that you start telling the people what you intend to do. We need to know that there is something inherently different about you and how you'll do things that is more than playing lip service. Go forth and share your plan with the people rather than just with me.

bdalongtail

Sean,

I would have to agree with Denis on this one. You had all the opporunity yesterday to really get the ball rolling for the BDA. The general public was waiting to see what BDA was going to come out with. You had the attention of the PLP, the press and several bloggers.

The webiste is crisp and clean which is great, but as Denis said there is little actual content with teeth. I understand that you want a platform for Bermuda by Bermuda - but why not when you released your big announcement and website lauch yesterday did you not include a series of dates for open discussion and your intentions to form your platfrom based on these discussions? Now BDA will have to try to re-gain the public attention and have to advertise these discussion forums to the general public to get the word around when you had everyone's attention yesterday. This is where I again have to agree with Denis with lack of preparedness.

I look forward to seeing what BDA comes out with in future, but am hoping to see a little more structure and clear vision.

Graeme Outerbridge

Dennis is correct concerning where BDA came from...I posted on Limey in Bermuda and outlined the concept of what the Alliance should try to be. My brother Alex shared the concept with me and I ran with it. Others may of thought it or spoke about it but I wrote it down and Dennis expanded on the concept as he outlined. Thanks Dennis for supporting the History of where the written concept of BDA came from

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Random musings on politics, finance and life on the 21 square mile string of islands often referred to as Bermuda, by Denis Pitcher.

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